Whatever Happened to the Hare Krishnas ABC Television Show 2013

ABC Television Australia just produced this program “Whatever Happened to the Hare Krishnas?” and it reminded me that almost twenty years ago I wrote a small book with the same title. So I have fond a copy of that old book and posted it on this website with the new ABC television program.

Upon re-reading my book from twenty years ago I find that it is still very relevant and interesting, even for me. Of course it was written twenty years ago, at the time when the zonal acarya system was still going on in ISKCON. But really nothing has changed, things have only become worse.

So please watch this new film, “Whatever Happened to the Hare Krishnas?” and read my booklet of the same name first published in 1989.

Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

Your servant

Madhudvisa dasa

Transcript of “Whatever Happened to the Hare Krishnas?”

Geraldine Doogue
Hello there, thank you for joining me. As we start a new series that looks back at some of the radical religious and social movements that swept through Australia in recent times… Whatever Happened to the Orange People, or Sanyassins as they’re now known, or the Christian Charismatics, or the young volunteers who went on Kibbutz? Who were they? Why did they join? And, where are they now? All will be revealed in the coming weeks and we start with the story of the Hare Krishnas and their impact here.

News Reporter (Archive vision)
Excuse me sir – what do you think of the Hare Krishna people you’ve just passed?

Man being interviewed (Archive vision)
“I suppose everyone can do what they want to, but… it’s not for me.”

Woman on the street (Archive vision)
“I think they’re mad!”

Chandra Emma
A lot of people joined because they were seeking truths, they were soul-searching and they were seeking for something deeper.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
The Hare Krishnas were young, full of energy – and fuelled with a vision of a new type of spiritual life.

Chandra Emma
Hare Krishna philosophy, Hare Krishna food, Hare Krishna clothing. There was no world outside Hare Krishna. That was all we knew.

Dhara DesFours
We were meant to be chosen children actually. Because to be born into a Hare Krishna situation was considered to be a blessing.

Narration Geraldine Doogue
So who were the Hare Krishnas, and where are they now?

Aniruddha Dasa
You don’t have to walk around with a bald head and tilac and robes all the time to be Hare Krishna!

Danielle (Damodara Priya)
So people say oh okay so not all Hare Krishnas are hippies running around the hills. No they’re not, they’re pilots and they’re lawyers and they’re doctors and they’re teachers and they’re nurses.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
For the past 30 years this property in northern New South Wales has been home to the biggest Hare Krishna farm community in Australia. They came here to create a world away from mainstream society – devoted to Krishna consciousness. Chandra moved here with her parents when she was 8 years old.

Chandra Emma
It was pretty amazing experience. I don’t think there are many kids who have had that kind of a start in life. Colour a lot of colour, a lot of music, a lot of festivity.

Growing up we were really raised by a society rather than individuals.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
Life was isolated. The children lived in the boarding school on the farm – without their parents.

Chandra Emma
There’s pros and cons. There was probably not a lot of nurturing. There wasn’t. You had to learn to be quite strong to survive and I was a really strong girl so I could manage quite well. I was very eager to please all of the adults, because it was the only way of getting much recognition.

If you did well you did well at chanting, you did well at service, when you’re the only one looking out for you – because you don’t have your parents there, you have to learn how to navigate people.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
It was a disciplined life on the commune. The day began at 3.30am with chanting.

Chandra Emma
It was a six day school. We did academia every day from 9 till about 1. Had lunch and then went to the river. It was a lot of fun.

We all lived in the ashram. Back in that time we had fields and fields and fields of flowers. So every day we would pick them, gather them and make the garlands for the deities. I can remember very clearly the music, the songs, and from the moment I got there I really didn’t ever want to leave.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
The local town of Murwillumbah was initially suspicious of the new arrivals. But the media found them fascinating.

News Reporter, 60 Minutes story, 1980
Even when they’re relaxing in the material world, the Krishna kids can never forget the spiritual. But the adults have of course, chosen to be Hare Krishnas. Their children have had no choice. They’ve been born to it.

Chandra Emma
TV cameras would come in and do shows on us and newspapers. A lot of PR.

News Reporter, 60 Minutes story, 1980
Who can tell me who Krishna is?

Child in footage, 60 Minutes story, 1980
God

Chandra Emma (as a child), 60 Minutes story, 1980
The supreme personality of Godhead.

Chandra Emma
And of course we were shoved in front of the cameras and say ‘look, these happy bright children!’ which we were – to a degree. We were perfect PR.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
Dhara was a few years younger than her friend Chandra.

Dhara DesFours
One thing that happened is we kept changing our names. My sister and I would come to the temple every week with a different Hare Krishna name.

So one week I was Chichralaka. Another week I was Rukmini, and finally I came across the name Dhara in a Krishna book. That’s the one for me!

Non Hare Krishna names were quite embarrassing to us as kids. And even the adults, my mother reminds me sometimes that to talk about your karmie name, your non Hare Krishna name is quite an embarrassing thing. Because it spoke of an identity that was not part of what was going on I guess.

When it came to the community they were really trying to mould us, and quite self-consciously. There was no point at which they tried to cover that. They really believed that was the right way to go, to try and turn us into perfect young Hare Krishna people that would go on to be exemplary Hare Krishna adults.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
The Hare Krishna movement in the west was born in the 1960s at the height of the youth revolution. A 69-year old Indian swami dressed in orange robes arrived in New York City. His name was Srila Prabhupada and he had come to spread Krishna consciousness to the world. Mukunda Goswami – or Michael Grant as he was known back then, was one of his first disciples.

Mukunda Goswami
It was a very dingy room he was lecturing.

Praphubada, Archive footage
Actual identity as part of the supreme Lord – Krishna.

Mukunda Goswami
And it was very incongruous scene because he looked very distinguished, and the people who were listening were kind of hippie like.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
New devotees flocked to hear this learned swami giving lessons about an ancient Indian religion.

Mukunda Goswami
The thing that I remember about the philosophy was him saying I am not this body. And I thought that was a really good little line so to speak. I thought well I don’t think that way but if he thinks that way, if he believes that, that’s the first time I’ve ever heard anyone say such a thing. That stuck with me. I am not this body.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
Within a few months, Prabhupada had registered this fledgling movement and called it ISKCON – the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. Within two years, the movement had established temples in San Francisco and Los Angeles. Next stop was London where Mukunda and the devotees actively sought out celebrities.

Mukunda Goswami
And so from that point on we started trying to meet a lot of important people. The Beatles were the celebrity of the world at the time.

It did have a good effect. It taught us it’s not what you know it’s who you know.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
George Harrison, already interested in Eastern spirituality, in fact sought them out.

Mukunda Goswami
We didn’t invite him, he just turned up one day. I was one of the Hare Krishnas that he really liked. The fact that we were both musicians had a lot to do with it. He didn’t like everybody but I was kind of a friend of his and he trusted me and we had some good conversations.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
With a little help from their new friends, the movement gained fame world- wide. Its founder Prabhupada visited Australia as temples were set up in Sydney and Melbourne.

Aniruddha Dasa
I met a devotee who gave me a card– it was an invitation to Sunday feast and it said: Chant Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare. Hare Ram, Hare Ram, Ram, Ram Hare Hare, and make your life sublime or something like that. And I took that card home and stuck it on my pin up board.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
Aniruddha was the eldest of four boys. Raised an Anglican, he grew up in Adelaide in the 1960’s.

Aniruddha Dasa
I was really a bit of a no-hoper until I met the devotees. When I was 15,16 and people would always ask me what are you going to do when you grow up. And I think what the hell, I don’t know. And I felt like a cog in a machine that was just basically grinding you into paste. I didn’t feel very happy about what I was doing. And it wasn’t until I met the devotees that things started to make sense for me.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
Hare Krishna teachings are rooted in Indian Hindu culture and date back more than 5000 years. They embrace a single god – Krishna. They are strict vegetarians, and believe that chanting the Hare Krishna mantra is a way of attaining a rapturous connection with God.

Aniruddha Dasa
To be an initiate is quite strict. You have to follow what we call the regulated principles. That’s no meat eating, no gambling, no intoxication and no illicit sex. And you have to chant 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra every day, which is pretty much for everybody a 2 hour commitment. And it also means rising early and pretty much trying to dedicate all of your activities to service to god

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
In 1977, the movement suffered a devastating blow. Their beloved leader and founder of the Hare Krishna movement, Srila Prabhupada died.

Mukunda Goswami
Prabhupada dying was one of those unthinkable things. Because he was the guru, he was the CEO of the institution and then one day he was gone.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
ISKCON by now had over 100 temples, dozens of farming communities, restaurants and schools around the world. But with its leader gone, the organisation would struggle with ongoing succession problems.
Back in Murwillumbah, Chandra and Dhara were now old enough to go to the local high school in town.

Dhara DesFours
I mean and it’s not that we didn’t make friends with non Hare Krishna kids, because we did. But there was a profound sense that we were from another place and part of a different life.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
Today, Chandra is back living in Murwillumbah where she runs her own business.

Chandra Emma
We didn’t not understand mainstream culture. We didn’t know music, we didn’t know literature, we didn’t know movies, we certainly didn’t know how to dress. We knew how to wear saris.

I remember the first time I went to high school I pulled my socks up. Now it’s probably in fashion but at that point it wasn’t! But I didn’t know – I’d never worn socks before.

Dhara DesFours
And I once took wheat bix to school! I just didn’t know (laughs). I didn’t have a sandwich!

Chandra Emma
With a little bottle of milk! (Laughs) She’ll never live it down.

Dhara DesFours
It was just social suicide.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
On the farm, Dhara and Chandra were growing into young women. But the experiment of transplanting a conservative, devotional Indian religion onto a modern western society was presenting unexpected problems.

Chandra Emma
We were severely shamed for having any kind of sensual behaviour even if it just meant eye shadow. It was really really shut down and shunned. That was a really hard transition going from being a little kid, innocent, to okay all these natural my body’s changing. But they didn’t know what to do with us, they just didn’t know what to do with us.

News Reporter, 60 Minutes story
There seems to be a certain place for a woman here to hold. Aren’t you very much told what to do as a woman in the Hare Krishna movement?

Woman being interviewed, 60 Minutes story
No, we’re not told what to do. We just accept the position of serving our husbands nicely.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
The role of Hare Krishna women in the movement was from another time and place. The most young girls could aspire to was cooking, sewing, marrying early and being a good wife.

Dhara DesFours
I guess they imagined that there was going to be a place for us to slot in to but the place never really existed.

The horses really ruined it for me in that sense. It gives you an enormous sense of freedom and being submissive and cute and cooking with your hair covered? Not for this girl (laughs).

Chandra Emma
It was interesting and hard when we discovered that there was a whole world out there that wasn’t all that bad. Because we were taught that everything was pretty much evil except us. You know it was all bad, terribly bad and scary and polluting and dangerous and horrible. So you know there was fear there, there was like, you know were we protected or were we just isolated? I don’t know.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
Danielle – or Damodara Priya had quite a different experience as a young Hare Krishna. She was twelve when her family moved to the farm so she went straight to the high school outside the community in Murwillumbah.

Danielle (Damodara Priya)
I was a very public Hare Krishna. I had this propensity to argue and to talk, and also to be very bold. That was my quality. Because I wasn’t scared of anyone. People were ashamed to admit that they were Hare Krishnas because they thought people might pick on them or we were different. But I never felt like that. I felt very strong.

It was quite funny, I was the school captain at the local public school and we were doing a Harenarm. Everyone I think has seen a Hare Krishna, running around doing this Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna. And I remember a kid being… ‘mum that’s my school captain!’

In retrospect I think I still got the benefit of being associated with the community and learning those things whilst still keeping one foot in the other world.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
Now 33, Danielle lives on the Gold Coast with her non-Hare Krishna husband Chris. Tonight they’re hosting a dinner and prayer night for local devotees.

Chris (Danielle’s Husband)
How many are you expecting tonight?

Danielle (Damodara Priya)
Chundramuki is definitely coming and Tweed Chundramuki might be coming, Mahini and her kids are coming. Just the usual honey… that’s what happens when you married a Hare Krishna you have to cook for 20 people for dinner!

Chris (Danielle’s Husband)
That’s right

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
Danielle’s guests don’t belong to ISKCON. And neither does she any more.
At 17 Danielle chose to follow a visiting guru from India, Srila Narayan Maharaj – one of the leaders who emerged after Prabhupada’s death. This caused a split at the farm. Danielle and other initiates of the Indian guru were asked to leave.

Danielle (Damodara Priya)
And that was very difficult at first. We’ve grown up on that farm out at Murwillumbah and that was our childhood. And then for reasons that were kind of beyond our conception there was a little bit of politics and we couldn’t go there. It was just a little odd.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
Internationally, the movement was struggling to cope with ‘Life After Prabhupada’. A number of disciples had been appointed as gurus – to fill the void. They were to preach to different parts of the world.
But the new system was to implode quite spectacularly over the next ten years as guru-by-guru fell from grace.

Mukunda Goswami
They were people that got drunk on power… because they were young and as has been mentioned they’re just human beings and they have frailties.

We have to make a vow that there’s going to be no intoxication, no meat eating, no illicit sex. It’s a very difficult thing to subscribe to for a lifetime.

To be above those frailties requires a very special commitment, a very extraordinary commitment.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
Even the farm at Murwillumbah was about to be rocked by its own crisis.

Dhara DesFours
In 1986, as far as I remember there was a big festival for Vishnupad who was the guru of most people in the community and then shortly after that it was discovered that he wasn’t living the life of a celibate as he’d vowed to be. And then perhaps he wasn’t a directly empowered representative of god if he wasn’t able to maintain that standard. And there was a crisis of faith for many of the followers after that was revealed.

It was tumultuous for everyone. It was hugely tumultuous because you know people imagined their spiritual past to be very much tied up with this person, and then he was gone.

Chandra Emma
In the 80’s when everything started to come out – this temple here was like a ghost town. I think a lot of those people felt very let down and ripped off when they realised the older, the people that were in charge some of them were quite corrupt.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
The nineties proved to be the most difficult time for the Hare Krishna movement worldwide. Reports of physical, emotional and sexual abuse emerged in Hare Krishna boarding schools in India and the United States.

Chandra Emma
Yeah there was a lot of really heavy awful stuff that went on. But not in our Australian school. Our Australian school was I would say kept to a really high standard in that sense that we were very fortunate.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
The children of the first generation of Hare Krishnas in Australia, are now adults. Their lives are very different from their parents.
Danielle – bold and forthright as a child – was encouraged by her guru to direct her strengths into a legal career.

Danielle (Damodara Priya)
My guru said, oh you should be a lawyer because it’s good training for you to educate and argue and discuss philosophy. And then all of a sudden I had this full scholarship to Bond University – and then all of a sudden there’s a full scholarship to Cambridge.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
After graduating with honours from Cambridge, Danielle now lectures at university on the Gold Coast.

Danielle (Damodara Priya)
It is actually funny when you are doing something for spiritual reasons you do actually find that the way gets paved for you. So I mean for me I just think it is a complete fluke the way my life has worked out.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
Once a year the second generation Hares from all over the world come together to showcase their talents. And this year they’ve come to Murwillumbah.
Chandra is a fashion designer – fusing high–end contemporary pieces with strong Indian influences.

Chandra Emma
I’ve always had a fascination with clothes. I like to play with colour, feathers style. A little John Galiano, Vivian Westwood – a little bit over the top. So it’s kind of like Indian village meets contemporary.

We are quite an opulent group of people. Like we’re really into lush texture, colour, flowers, incense…

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
Today the movement is steadily growing again. There are restaurants in all the major cities in Australia and temples serving weekly feasts to the needy. Books are still being sold – and they’re back on streets again – entertaining the crowd!

In Murwillumbah, Dhara is balancing study and motherhood, raising her daughter Joti. For this little one, her feet are placed firmly in both worlds.

Dhara DesFours
For her there’s much that’s fun and light and sweet.

She loves going to the temple and she’s just a real little chanter. She’s always bowing down and I think no what have I done?!

But in so far as what I want to give her, I would like to give her access to the parts that I feel are positive and good and spare her the kinds of things that were confusing to me as I grew up.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
For many of those who grew up in that early community, the pull to return can be irresistible.

Chandra Emma
This has always been home for me. I’ve always hankered for these hills. Because I spent so many solid years there as a kid, like even just driving. Every time I drive over the bridge up the hill it’s like ahh, the lotuses, the peacocks.

The Hare Krishna children that were involved in the very experimental time of the early 80’s there was a bit of a gap. There was a bit of a time where most of us wanted nothing to do with the temple because we thought too much hypocrisy and a lot of letdown.
And then I think we healed a lot. We forgave, there was a lot of forgiveness and I think the bitterness sort of died and we were able to go back as adults.

Narration, Geraldine Doogue
Once the domain of the men in the community, today Chandra and her daughter Kalyani and son Kamadave lead the kirtan – the devotional chanting.

Chandra Emma
It’s very powerful for me when I see my children involved in the prayer and meditation the same way that moves my soul. And I see my children moved in that same way. I think wow that’s really very special.

Danielle (Damodara Priya)
It’s really nostalgic for me after all these years to go back to the temple and the farming community and look at that beautiful temple – because I spent a lot of time there as a child I do really enjoy going back there to celebrate big festivals. It’s like Christmas. Hare Krishna Christmas you could say!

Dhara DesFours
There’s really so many different stories for Hare Krishna people. Even though from the outside they might all look fairly similar. But then again if you tell someone that you’re Hare Krishna, grew up with Hare Krishnas they might expect that you’re going to be dancing down the street. And people have a pretty limited image of what that means and that’s just really not the case for the vast majority of us I think. Especially the second generation.

I have a relationship with this thing in many ways that kind of crosses many boundaries. It’s a social thing, it’s a cultural thing and it’s also something that has quite a hold on my sense of self.

Chandra Emma
I cannot imagine being without it. I can’t, it would be empty. For me Krishna is god. He just is. You’ve asked me what god’s like, god’s blue and he plays a bamboo flute!